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Jason Clifford's avatar

Just a clarification from an electrical engineer, Level 1 is a standard 120V, 15 or 20A outlet. They can take 25+ hours to charge a car with a decent battery. Level 2 is a 240V, 40-60A connection. Both can be at your house and home charging is by far the easiest.

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ArtLewellan's avatar

Should we add to the discussion some acronym (or metaphor) for car dependency?

Question: Do commute systems create more demand for commuting than they can handle?

Question: Does high-density housing create more demand for Uber or other drives like there's no tomorrow?

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Bob Rogers's avatar

Gasoline powered cars seem to solve all the problems you identify.

Who is buying the e-bikes? Mostly the people I see (in the US) who have them are using them recreationally.

California has a hard enough time keeping the power on as it is. If they get their way and add a bunch of EVs they're going to have real problems.

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Xzarterius's avatar

The elephant in the room is the amount of power consumption it takes from our power grids to charge these pieces of junk. Are people ready for rolling blackouts everyday just so the inefficient EV's can be charged??? Also, when the batteries die and you pay many thousands of dollars for new ones in your vehicle, where do the dead ones go??? How much land needs to be destroyed just to make one battery? (365,000 lbs of dirt need to be moved for just 1). This is just another deep state agenda to keep people at home in their 15 minute controlled cities. Don't believe the propaganda on these power grid sucking abominations.

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Tony Walters's avatar

“15 minute cities” aka the horror of having amenities within walking distance

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Xzarterius's avatar

AKA the retardation of thinking that only being able to travel within 15 minutes of where you live isn't a prison controlled by psychopaths. Welcome to China fuqtard.

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Tony Walters's avatar

“Fuqtard” truly intelligent discourse there.

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Adrian Levin's avatar

In the year 2525, if man is still alive

If woman can survive, they may find

In the year 3535

Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie

Everything you think, do and say

Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545

You ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes

You won't find a thing to chew

Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555

Your arms hangin' limp at your sides

Your legs got nothin' to do

Some machine's doin' that for you

In the year 6565

You won't need no husband, won't need no wife

You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too

From the bottom of a long glass tube

In the year 7510

If God's a coming, He oughta make it by then

Maybe He'll look around Himself and say

Guess it's time for the judgment day

In the year 8510

God is gonna shake His mighty head

He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been

Or tear it down, and start again

In the year 9595

I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive

He's taken everything this old earth can give

And he ain't put back nothing

Now it's been ten thousand years

Man has cried a billion tears

For what, he never knew, now man's reign is through

But through eternal night, the twinkling of starlight

So very far away, maybe it's only yesterday

In the year 2525, if man is still alive

If woman can survive, they may find

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Konstantin's avatar

The big blocker is that a car is climate controlled. Biking a few miles, or walking to the bus stop, is fine 95% of the time, but in extreme weather it can be uncomfortable or dangerous, and you need to get to work in extreme weather. For anyone who lives in cold weather areas, the fact that many electric chargers stop working when the temperature gets below zero can be a deal breaker. It doesn't matter if it only gets that cold a few days a year, people need transportation every day, no matter the weather. An ICE car is tough to beat in that regard.

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Andy Boenau's avatar

Sure, having options is the goal. That's what I write tons about. As it is, most Americans are forced into only one form of transportation.

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Craig Yirush's avatar

So driving is dangerous, but e-scooters aren’t?

Yet another driving is evil post. Some of us like cars and driving. As for fast charging, the problem isn’t the chargers, it’s that batteries are less energy dense than gas. Absent some step change in battery tech, we’re not going to have truly fast charging (under 5 minutes like at the pump). And some of us do like (or need) to drive long distances for which EVs are useless.

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Andy Boenau's avatar

I'm not sure what article you read that can be summed up as "driving is evil" but it certainly wasn't mine.

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Craig Yirush's avatar

Ok, driving is dangerous then. Unlike e-scooters!

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Ken Yost's avatar

Level 2 chargers are 240 V AC. Most cap out around 40-80 A. My PHEV gets 40 km on a 2 hour 240V, 40A charge.

Level 2 chargers in no way can charge a true EV in an hour.

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P. M. Hayden's avatar

I would agree. My 32 amp L2 home charger can recharge at the rate of 10% per hour. If I drive the battery down to 50% capacity, it takes five hours to reach 100% again. That’s slow by some standards, but works fine for overnight charging. Which is good enough to make an EV practical as a daily driver.

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Mike's avatar

That framework of look at the problem and don't get stuck in a particular solution is a good reminder. I like what this article also says about thr issues that could be caused by remaining a car based society, even of these cars are electric.

I listened to a podcast on housing and it focused on the price of housing which is important, but didn't mention the cost of housing especially if you build housing in ways that maintain car dependency.

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Heike Larson's avatar

Well in some cases, nothing but a fast charger will work. This week a friend and I want hiking at a trailhead >100 miles from home, and 6,000’ uphill. One of our cars was in the shop so I asked my friend to drive. Well, her EVs range wasn’t sufficient for the round trip, and the mountain town had no fast charger—and of course not even a slow one at the remote trailhead. So we ended up taking one of our ICE cars in the end.

Remote trailheads are a use case that I don’t see EVs serving for a long time—and of course bikes won’t work.

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P. M. Hayden's avatar

Her EV might have worked. I use. Mine to get to trailheads in the Cascades. The downhill miles are free. I actually charge the car by coasting. As a rule of thumb, it takes half the battery charge to get to the trailhead, and only 25% to return home. So a round-trip of 200 miles is doable.

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Rodney Rutherford's avatar

I would argue that Level 2 chargers are more convenient than Level 3 because that's how you can charge while you're at your destination. Level 3 is really only necessary for road trips...although can be used as a crutch to make up for lack of adequate Level 2 chargers (such as for some apartment dwellers...but in this case , L3 charging is FAR less convenient than L2 charging should be.

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Rodney Rutherford's avatar

We need a common e-bike charging interface. With that, e bikes could be lighter and cheaper, not needing nearly as much range.

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